ļ»æEP 1 FINAL 3 Transcript From Riverside
Jessica (00:02.486)
Rain to me has these like magical qualities. For me, the healing properties of rain often transcend a good hug. The sound of rain as it slowly pitter-patters on my window, or if I'm really lucky, the sound of rain from my mom's front porch is one of the safest and I think most healing things I can find on this earth.
Jessica (00:29.527)
Actually, here in the background, there's the sound of a summer storm from my mother's front porch. And to me, it's beautiful. It's grounding, and it's safe. I share this with you because this is something that I've invited into my practice. Of when I feel overwhelmed, when I feel like life is just too heavy. I take a shower, a long one.
I used to call them like my shower cries where I'd go and let the water kind of wash over me. But I've been blessed with the knowledge to know that water, like the land, has been here since time beyond memory. And water is one of the greatest cleansers.
And water is alive and it's in our family. It's a form of an ancestor. So when I tell you it feels like a hug, I'm blessed to know that in many ways it is. The way the sound of rain sounds like my mom's front porch. It gives me that like maternal warmth that I've been looking for when times feel heavy or tough.
Jessica (01:56.077)
I'm sharing this with you because on this podcast, we're going to be having some important and intense conversations. And I'd love for you to find your place to connect. Connect with the land, to find your safe space. And together, we're going to talk about what that looks like for you.
Now I want to welcome you to the Survivor Space. This is a podcast that's going to be uncovering the critical barriers survivors of sexual assault face in rural and remote Canadian communities.
I wanna pause.
I know for a lot of folks when you hear the words sexual assault.
We often are brought back to a flooding. Again, we're back to the water of memories. I'm here with you. I want to start this conversation with intention. I want to start this conversation with you. If you are listening to this while you're driving, maybe doing the dishes, walking your dog, sitting at your desk, you might think that you're alone.
Jessica (03:14.768)
that you're listening to this as an individual. And part of what we're doing here, part of what is actually grounding this podcast is indigenous focusing oriented therapy. And what it does is it reminds us that we all have the ability to not only connect to land, but to connect with each other.
Jessica (03:40.036)
This report is titled, Does Geography Impact Access to Justice? Access to, Evidence Collection, and Rural and Remote Canadian Communities. I want to be clear, even though this is a report, this is not going to feel academic. It's not going to feel top down where I'm like speaking at you. This is where we're going to be going and doing this together.
Now, why does this matter? Well, we know from our research that accessing forensic evidence collection is not an equal experience across the country, especially for rural remote indigenous communities. Now, there was a study that was actually done several years ago, also by the She Matters team, that looked at Canada's sexual assault evidence kits and their accessibility. And it was determined that there is
actually a crisis going on that what we thought or what was told to us is that these kits were widely available. But that's not true. These kits are not available for a lot of remote and indigenous communities. We learned, especially as we dive deeper, that there are huge gaps in survivors' experiences in these communities. And so together, we're going to talk about those
experiences with care. You're going to hear testimonies about folks who have been denied care. You're going to hear about folks who have traveled incredibly long journeys to access resources that they need to access justice or just standard health care.
Jessica (05:30.81)
I want to share with you a little bit about me, your host, and who I am and why I've been called to this work. My name is Jessica Regan. I use she, her pronouns. And I am so grateful to be here and honored to be your guide and host for this podcast. With humility, I live, work, and play, mother, and gather on as a guest on lands cared for since time beyond memory.
the HondushanĆ, the Mississaugas peoples, including the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation. These lands and waters hold stories far older than my own. As a mother, educator, or storyteller, I commit to walking gently, listening to the lessons of the sun and the water, and fostering honest dialogue, and bringing people together in ways that mend rather than take. I will tread with attention and intention, asking not only
How do I love this place? And how does this place need me to love it? Now, as I said, I come to you as a mother, a sister, but I'm also a daughter, a black woman, an adoptee, an educator, and someone who is also a survivor. I'm brought to you to do this work with over a decade of decolonial work, either through my work in DEI, mental health, or student support.
Now, I begin this journey with you sharing my position as a settler who was deeply impacted by colonial, racist, sexist, and ableist systems that have been built upon the disenfranchisement of Indigenous folks. I begin this conversation with an invitation. Now, I think it's really important to recognize that the stories and testimonies that you're about to hear are not only are they common, but they're raw and they speak to the lived experiences of
survivors and many of us are survivors. Many of us are supporters of survivors. And this report is echoing what is happening all across our country. It's happening unfortunately in our communities. And so when we call upon you to practice ways to radically take care of yourself, it helps inform how we can show up when
Jessica (07:51.485)
these systems that are rooted in injustice perpetuate harm. So together, we are going to unpack this report. This podcast was undertaken by She Matters, a community of Canadian survivors and allies united in healing, support, education, and advocacy, and has been funded by Wage Canada. And when we have conversations around sexual assault and we look at the systems that are
creating barriers and harms for survivors. We often realize that a lot of these issues are because our support systems, how we show up for each other is very siloed, it's individualistic. And I wanna take this time to remind you that you are standing in community, that there are people from all over the world listening to this with you. And they're listening to these testimonies.
And I want to be honest with you, these testimonies carry weight.
and I want us to feel prepared as we bear witness to these testimonies. And with that in mind, before we get into the why this report, what is this report and how we're going to have conversations together, I want to invite you to take care of yourself and allow me to also take care of you by providing you a content and trigger warning. There are going to be themes of violence that will be discussed in this podcast.
Sexual assault will be discussed in this podcast. Gender-based violence, systemic injustices and violence, racism, anti-Indigenous racism. These themes will be discussed in this podcast, but they're going to be discussed with care. They're going to be discussed in a way where I will provide you the space to breathe through these testimonies.
Jessica (09:52.101)
and be in community with one another throughout these testimonies.
Jessica (09:59.771)
Now I want us to take a moment. I want us to take a breath. I know that this is heavy. And if it feels safe for you right now, I'd like you to fill your belly with air. And if you're like me, you might carry a lot of tension in your shoulders.
I'm going to lead and model vulnerability to you right now. I'm currently carrying tension in my shoulders because of the weight and the responsibility of sharing this testimony, sharing these stories. I'm wanting to do this right and I even have to remind myself that we are in the pursuit of healing and connectedness and not perfection.
So with that, I am going to invite myself to roll my shoulders back, fill my belly with air, and model to you that I too can open up my heart and open up my chest to feel safe.
Jessica (11:08.409)
You have permission to sit here, listen for a while and join on this journey. What do you need in this moment to feel safe here? Because this is your invitation to learn. Open up your mind and heart to new concepts and real stories of sexual assault survivors. Let's take a pause.
Jessica (11:47.175)
While we are unpacking this report, I want to remind you that we are doing things differently. Historically, survivors' stories have been told Netflix-style, where there is a rush to get clips, things that are going to be high-touch will get folks' attention, and then often their stories are discarded. Context isn't given. Space in their stories
is not allowed. Now, when we say we do things differently here, we are holding space for survivors' truth and testimony. We are not engaging in the true crime approach to survivor stories. I think especially for missing, murdered, and Indigenous women, a lot of true crime conversations try to, if anything, capitalize on the real stories, trauma, and pain.
of Indigenous folks' especially as their experiences are shaped by the legacy of colonialism. And when we say we're doing things differently here, you might notice that these aren't just short clips. These are conversations. These are people's real-life stories. They are raw. They are only filtered in a way that protects folks' identities and tries to mitigate sharing any very traumatic stories that might be
too hard for listeners. These aren't over editorialized. These aren't created in a way where you can do a little sound bite and carry on with your day. We are trying to decolonize our attention span, especially for survivors, because not everything is meant to be digestible. You can sit in discomfort in a way that feels safe. And I'm going to do that with you here today.
Jessica (13:44.083)
This podcast is structured in a way that resembles the four sacred directions. The East, where we have birth, new beginnings, illumination, sometimes is tied to the color yellow. The South, youth, emotional energy, relationships and growth. West, introspection, endings, healings, the physical body, the warrior. North, wisdom, reflection.
intellectual and spiritual guidance, winter. These directions are going to help provide a container for how we observe and connect with these stories. And today we're going to be starting in the East. We will be looking at testimonies of survivors and what it was like for them as they navigated these systems.
And now I would like to introduce you to Robin. Robin is the founder and owner of Eagle Medicine Coaching and Consulting. And I feel like those words actually don't do her justice. She's really been not only a guiding light in this podcast, but she's been such a vessel of knowledge. And she's going to share with us a little bit more information about the East Door. Today I want to share with you the personal teachings and understanding of the East Door.
Although there are many, this is what I know to be true in this moment. The east door is where we begin. It is the doorway of creation, of new beginnings, of transformation and healing, if you allow it. Here in the east is where the spirit is conceived and gifted to the womb of the mother-to-be. It is the reminder of where the children sit, the young life, the stage when we learn to crawl and then to walk.
The East is the early stage of your new beginning, the opening of your new story. When we walk through this door, we are called back to remembering, remembering who we are, where we come from, and all those who love us and nurture us, even when we forget. So I invite you in a good way to come sit with us to enter through the East door, just as we would when entering the lodge.
Jessica (16:03.601)
We enter this space together with respect, with openness, and with Spirit guiding us. This is the beginning, the first step into your transformation. Welcome, relative. You are safe here. You are held here. You are loved here.
As we walk through the east door and are guided by the four sacred directions, together we're going to unpack this report. We're going to use an approach that asks us how can we connect with the land when we're healing? And how can I connect with this podcast while also honoring myself at the same time? How can I listen to challenging or difficult testimonies that might bring up feelings that are really big? How can I listen with care?
How can I, even if I'm standing alone listening to this podcast, recognize that I'm doing this in community of other survivors and rights holders? These are just some of the questions that we're going to be asking throughout this podcast. The approach that this report takes is one that's grounded in Indigenous focusing oriented therapy and asks us to connect with the land.
Now you might be confused on what that means. And that's okay. We can figure this out together.
Jessica (17:32.435)
Connecting with the land for some might mean going for a walk, looking out your window and bearing witness to a tree sway in the breeze. Maybe it's noticing the change of seasons, listening to the birds chirping outside your window, having a warm shower, or engaging in ceremony. Connecting.
and being able to be with the land is something that we all have access to. For many folks, because it feels like we can't access the land, it keeps us separated from one another. And it incentivizes that lack of connection, that lack of community, and some might even argue, the division that a lot of us feel.
Now, how can you do this today?
I might invite you to look out your window or put your feet into the floor. do you feel? Now, when we're unpacking this report, we're going to be looking and viewing this through an I F O T lens. We're going to hear from Robin, who's going to provide some really helpful context onto how I F O T not only shapes this podcast and how we share these testimonies, but also just the foundations of these practices.
Indigenous Focus Oriented Therapy is a land-based healing modality created to help others reconnect with their inner wisdom and medicine through the ideation and connection to the land and all natural elements. The land is a portal to ancestral knowing and generational healing. It invites us to trust our ability to connect with ourselves on a deeper level, to clear space within and listen to the wisdom and stories our bodies
Jessica (19:29.171)
carry for us. The human body is always speaking, but we must quiet the mind to hear these profound stories. Many of us have experienced trauma, neglect, and pain in our waking life, and our bodies have kept the score. Yet our bodies have also held us, carried us forward with safety, protection, and healing, whether we were aware of it or not.
Indigenous focus oriented therapy reminds us that we can carry both pain and healing. That there is medicine in the wounds as well. Some will say it's duality, but here we call it end, end, end.
Society has convinced us that everything we need exists outside of us, but in truth everything we seek already lives within us. IFT reminds us of this truth. It's like coming home to yourself. Supported by Mother Earth and the abundance of knowledge and gifts she carries. Because we are in constant flow and relationship with it all. This modality has the ability to regulate your nervous system.
heal across generations and help you feel safe within your own being. It reminds you that you are never alone, that you're always in relationship with both self and land, and that you have the capacity to sit beside your trauma and discomfort with the help, care, and holding of Mother Earth. For some, this will be a new language. For others, it'll be a gentle reminder of the beauty and healing they already know.
that simply stepping outside and walking in nature can restore the mind, body, and spirit. But even still, quieting the mind and listening to the flutter of your heartbeat can do the same. The truth is this, everything you see, witness, and appreciate in the land also lives within you. We all come from the land, just different parts of the world.
Jessica (21:45.238)
Everyone is welcome here in this sacred space called life. So if you are looking out your window, driving while listening to this podcast, going for a jog or sitting at your kitchen table gazing out this green window, pause for a moment. Look at the trees, the grass, or the sky with new eyes and appreciation. Know that the beauty you see before you is also the beauty
that lives within you. You have always been in relationship with the God. She has been waiting for your return. This is the gift we share with you moving forward in your waking life.
Jessica (22:36.476)
Some questions you might want to ask yourself when you're trying to yourself embody this approach. What and who can I turn to when I feel discomfort? How can I return to the land or return to myself in these moments? If I'm not sure, you might ask yourself, where in my life have I felt the most safe? Was it by the water? Was it by the trees? How can they guide me today?
What we're going to do now is we're going to witness a testimony. Outside of my voice as the narrator and host, you'll also be hearing a second voice, the voice of Patty. So Patty is actually the researcher who was conducting these interviews with survivors and rights holders. And she helps us really not only bear witness to these testimonies, but also helps us connect the land.
Her approach is grounded in Indigenous focusing-oriented therapy, and she has a way with words. Her ability to add ease and grace and care into these dialogues is truly unprecedented. Her voice is going to help us understand and also guide these conversations as well.
Jessica (23:57.978)
My name's Patti and I'm based down in Ladner, BC. So I'm working out of the Swasson First Nation here. And I was able to join Jacqueline and Chloe after they did their first research, which was done by survivors, grassroots, no funding. And they asked kind of the first questions about geography. So they called every hospital, every healthcare center and basically said,
If someone needed to come right now, can you collect the evidence? Do you have a space? Do you have qualified personnel to help someone who's walking out from this incident? And so the results were not great. And I joined for this part of the conversation with service providers and survivors.
And so we're just interested in really building better systems and supports. So part of the way I'm trained is through indigenous focusing oriented therapies and land is really valuable. Absolutely. To the sharing of stories. So we always bring the land into these interviews. You can hold onto that little guy and then we've got the rest of this Cedar for you to take along.
And so part of those teachings are, you know, when we talk about big topics, if we have big emotions, big sad, big anxiety, anger, those kinds of things, the land will always hold that for us. The land always knows how to transform how we're doing into a more balanced state. And so I always try and bring medicine to these conversations.
The other piece is we start with stories. So you've got the consent behind you, which is really kind of the biggest Western piece of the research. I'll have a few questions for you, but otherwise you were invited. You were like, yep, I've got a story to share. Here are the story you want to share to begin with. Like my story? Yeah. I don't even know where to start.
Jessica (26:21.532)
I spend a lot of time today thinking about it because I knew that it was something that I was gonna share and it's not something that I've ever shared before. So it is a very emotional topic. But it is something that I'm ready to put it out into the world. And know, Matters has changed my life for the better. When I was 16 years old, I...
had no idea that there were people in place to support me the way that I would have needed. It was very lonely. So when I was 16, a sibling of somebody I had previously dated,
I guess decided that getting close to me would have been easy. was in a very vulnerable state and he was 19, I was 16. And, you know, things, I was very naive and very, I'm a very smitten girl. just, I'm a people pleaser and I just want to make everybody happy. And so saying no is something very difficult for me.
And so we just kind of started to hang out and spend time together doing errands and random things. And he had approached me one day about having intercourse. And I told him, no, that's not something that I was interested in. And that I felt uncomfortable. And
Jessica (28:20.636)
he was kind of taken aback and surprised by my reaction. But like I was still a virgin, I was still so young, I didn't know anything. I was just a kid.
Jessica (28:35.992)
And one of the times that he, the last time that he ever picked me up, and I, you know, still have attachment to the music that was playing, the area that we were in, and that make a model of car are very triggering things for me.
but after the fact he dropped me off at my best friend's house and all I could do was laugh because I couldn't wrap my head around the fact that that had just happened.
And I remember reaching towards substances because I didn't feel as though I had any supports.
Thank you for sharing. Yeah, it's super helpful to hear about your experience. And I just wanna say, I wanna acknowledge actually your strength and the gifts that you even described in the moment. Like that ability for your body to take care of you by going numb is...
something that women have done for the agents, right? That is that I hope you see that or over time you see that as a real strength in terms of taking care of yourself, your laughter, even though society tells us like, why were you laughing at such a horrible moment? But that laughter is part of your survivance, right?
Jessica (30:30.14)
And even those substances we say, that's a bad way to deal with it. I don't know you sometimes we do what we need to do To keep the next day coming. Absolutely, right? so the First and foremost, I want to acknowledge that from the moment it happened You were walking out that pain through all of these gifts that you're carrying and you continue to do so
by even giving voice to your story to us and to this project. So thank you for being so helpful. Yeah, absolutely. So it sounds like She Matters has been your kind of primary support. Have there been other ways that you've continued to move forward? She Matters has definitely been my safe haven. Yeah. It has really opened my eyes to see that there are women out there.
who have experienced similar things, who are there for you. I have spent a lot of time with a psychotherapist. And she has also changed my life for the better. She is somebody that I can trust wholeheartedly and not fear any judgment. And she knows everything. Isn't it great when you find someone who's good? Yeah.
Yeah, it's transformative, really beautiful. Would you have known, do you think back in the day about, you know, going to the hospital or, you know, seeking, I, you know, I don't think at 16, I would have known there were such a thing as kits or the idea of collecting evidence. Yeah. that a lot.
Sex was a very taboo topic in my family. You didn't talk about it a lot. And the only talk I really got was from my dad telling me that I need to wait till I was 18. And that I needed to wait till I was an adult to make those kinds of decisions, which I understand. So when it did happen, I felt very ashamed and embarrassed.
Jessica (32:51.52)
And like even in school, everybody is so concerned about the sex education curriculum. But nobody is concerned about letting boys and girls know that they have supports. It is important from a young age. At 16 years old, I didn't even know what a rape kit was. Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. I didn't know that it was a possibility. I didn't know that I was allowed to have a voice. I didn't know that I was allowed to speak my truth.
I felt like I needed to hide and cover up the tracks and not say anything.
I would say no. Yeah, no, totally fair. Totally fair. If that's the context. And then I'm thinking about there are probably ways that you helped other women along the line. what would you say you've taken up since then in terms of, oh gosh, it could be just relating to
to men or healthy relationships or like how have you watched out for others? There is something that kind of changed in my mind when it happened and like it just something in me knew that I needed to make a difference and I needed to say something and do something about it. But for a long time,
I stayed quiet. There was a weird situation where I was driving home, you know, and I saw this couple arguing on the sidewalk and I saw the man kind of get aggressive with the woman. And I, I've never stopped my car so fast in my life. I just got out of my car and I just started yelling at him to leave her alone. And I offered to give her a ride home and just like a mama bear in me wants to protect every single woman.
Jessica (34:58.424)
out there because I don't ever want any woman to experience what I did. And last summer, I spent starting last summer, I spent nine months working in the emergency department at the hospital. And that really opened my eyes to the lack of support that survivors have even at the hospital.
And so working there, it was kind of my mission to look out for any woman that I saw that had experienced something like this.
I really, it was really eye opening to work in the emergency department and see a lack of support. Yeah. Can you, are we okay shifting to that? Yeah. So, so tell me a little about your experience there of what you. A little extra. Yep. Working as a nursing student. you know, saw hundreds of patients a day and never really expected. I don't know why.
But never really expected to see sexual assault victims or survivors in my department. But unfortunately, it happened quite frequently. So how the emergency department works is we have a whiteboard, a digital whiteboard that shows the list of every patient in the department and beside it is a little box with their
their complaint, their chief complaint, is whatever they're coming for. And the first time that I saw sexual assault next to somebody's name, my heart dropped. And I knew that I felt like she needed me just as much as I needed her. And so
Jessica (37:08.3)
I brought it to the attention of the nurse in charge and I said, like, we need, we need to get some supports in here as soon as possible. And I, I called her like a million times asking her like, how can I support this girl? What can I do? That's more than what they're offering. Unfortunately.
we do not unfortunately, but we do have a room at the hospital that is reserved for victims and survivors of sexual assault for their kids to be performed and for them to get the supports they need. And in the 10 months that I worked at the hospital and in all of the cases of sexual assault that I have seen, not once was that revealed.
Jessica (38:00.932)
I remember on multiple night shifts seeing super young girls come in for sexual assault and in the notes section seeing no vip nurse till Monday. And this would have been a Friday. And that's not okay. No. Because now they're being held in the emergency department with no support.
and no access to a kit because there's no registered staff to do it.
And that just broke my heart. have the resources that we need. Why aren't we using them? The volume at which we're seeing cases like this is astronomical. And there were times where I'd see children come in for things of the sorts. And that's just heartbreaking alone. And to know that they aren't receiving the support that they should be.
didn't sit right with me and that is a huge part of the reason that I don't work there anymore.
I remember while all of this was happening, She Matters was literally going through meetings with the hospital board about situations like this happening. And, you know, women were speaking out about sitting in the department for hours and hours on end without having a kit done, without having a VIP nurse, without having any of the people that they require. I felt like an ally from the inside.
Jessica (39:43.248)
but also so powerless because as a nursing student, there's nothing I can do. I did try to take it upon myself to speak up and voice that this is a serious concern and that this is a serious case. This needs to be taken seriously and we need a doctor here as soon as possible. And I would just be ignored or shut down.
but I feel like...
Our first instinct, as much as it might be difficult or triggering when they come into the department, our first instinct is to ask them what they want to do or it should be and get that protocol in place and get those steps rolling. As opposed to leaving them in a room and treating them like any other patient. They need a different level of care. They're coming here because they don't know what else to do. And they just experienced probably one of the most traumatic events of their
Yeah. That's going to stay with them and the way they're treated from the minute they walk in the door, they will remember. Yeah.
Jessica (40:54.406)
So that being shut down or ignored, like, so what would happen?
they would be seen treated for injury and let go, but definitely not engaged or cared for. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. They would be medically clear. Yeah. But not psychologically. Yeah. Or emotionally. Yeah. And those are two of the biggest parts. know, physical aspect. It's there and it sucks and it happens.
and it is part of the process that we have to.
absorb, but the psychological and emotional sides, yeah, really like take over and and
just overcrowd the physical side. feel like the physical part is once a kit is done is what's most forgotten. And the psychological and emotional parts stay with us for the rest of our lives. And that's not a part of the forensic process. Right. The forensic process is largely technical. Yeah. And are you aware of any times where people were asked to come back?
Jessica (42:19.12)
Like, yeah. Not once. And in all of my 10 months of being there, I've never even saw, like, anybody talk about a kit or anybody mention a kit or get the steps in order to do a kit. Yeah. Like, none of that was ever talked about. And I've seen probably 25 different cases. Yeah. Yeah. In your...
training like in school, are you talking about this part of nursing practice at all or will you? Yeah, not at all. And of course, in how to support somebody who is going through a situation of this sort, yeah, would be beneficial. Yeah. We have courses for every other topic. Yeah. You know, maternal.
in every system of the body, professional growth, relational practice, why can't we throw in one more course? That just at least gives us a base knowledge.
because those people will remember you and how you treated them forever. As soon as you walk into their room after they've experienced something traumatic, you become a part of their story. And it's important. It was always important for me. It's still important for me to be gentle and calm when I approach them because I know
that I don't need to bring extra chaos. They already have enough of that going on inside their head and that they will remember my face and my voice for the rest of their life.
Jessica (44:13.708)
Another gift. Did you know you wanted to go into nursing? the very beginning. Yeah. Beautiful. Exactly where you need to be. So if you shifted, you're really amazing because you're a person who is training into a system that you know is flawed. You have direct lived experience and you will also have a
commitment to bringing your gifts and your talents to resolving. So what would an ideal scenario look like, whether it involves the hospital or not, for a survivor? Like if we could imagine a future of a continuum of care and don't be precious, just all of the ideas.
the number one thing would come down to what the survivor wanted to do. Okay, so survivor centered? 100%. Yeah. Because going through something traumatic like that and being forced to do something you don't want to do afterwards. Right. It's not helpful. It doesn't get us anywhere. Yeah. If you're uncomfortable, you're just going to shut down. And that's just going to take us three steps backwards. Yeah. That's not what we want to do. Yeah.
I think that...
Jessica (45:48.474)
perfect situation.
of Wade.
Jessica (45:58.029)
involved.
Jessica (46:03.622)
I don't even know.
Like if you were writing, let's start with just writing the course. What do you think would be incredible to put in a course? I think...
And you can borrow from your other courses if you need to.
Well, my course relational practice teaches us the impact of our actions on our lives and other people's lives. I think that's a really important course. And like I was saying before, you know, talking to somebody who has experienced sexual assault, you will be changing their life forever. So I think that a course that supports knowing how to professionally address somebody.
while also being personable and also still in a professional way, support somebody.
Jessica (47:10.319)
But I think...
that all nurses should know how to administer a kit. I think that that should be a course on its own. Because it's not a bad skill to have in your back pocket. And it can make all the difference for somebody's story. That way there's no more waiting till Monday because there's no VIP nurse on call or same nurse.
You shouldn't have to wait till month.
Jessica (47:48.171)
And I think the course would also have a psychological aspect so that students could understand the psychological effect that it will have on survivors.
Jessica (48:09.487)
the duration alone, it's not something that goes away after a couple of years. So, you know, in our maternal fetal class, we learn about every single stage of life. I think that in a course aimed at supporting survivors, it would be important to have a similar-ish timeline.
Yeah, know that not everybody's timeline is the same. Yeah. But just a brief timeline of what to expect and how to support. And I think that the course should also have an aspect of personal reflection and the way that it can change a family.
knowing how to support your spouse after something like this happens, whether you've known it from the beginning or not, it's not always something comfortable to share with your significant other. so understanding
they may be feeling and what they need in that moment will be important. Beautiful. You go back and write that album. Yeah, no, I'm fascinated as someone who is outside of healthcare specifically. And I do understand like
the left part of my brain is like, well, sure, it makes sense that technically you have to be very precise and very proficient at the collection of evidence because of, you know, the medical procedure, if you will, is interlocked with the legal rigor, I'll call it. But I'm so blown away in story after story now from, because we're talking in the Yukon, Northern BC over here.
Jessica (50:19.161)
that that aspect of care and compassion is not a part of this unless you get really lucky and someone calls a social worker or crisis worker who seems to carry that whole person perspective. So yeah, I'm really shocked as a woman who's in her mid-50s that I would expect.
a level of care in addition to the examination. I, at the very least, would expect the nurse to hold the patient's hand and tell them, we've got you now. You're safe here. It's going to be OK. And unfortunately, a lot of the time, I got in response from nurses, you know, I don't have time for that.
you
Over the next four episodes, we are going to introduce wellness breaks. These are going to be opportunities, invitations, radical calls to action, forms of personal justice that you can embed into your active participation in this podcast. These are ways to take care of you. Why does that matter? What's the context around this? Let's talk about it.
This is a great opportunity to invite some breath work that you might need right now. And if you do, that's okay. I'm not here to make you feel like there's something wrong with you if you're feeling emotionally activated. And if you don't have a reaction, that's also okay. We're showing up here in a place with emotional neutrality, meaning come as you are. We're not attaching judgments to how you show up.
Jessica (52:21.583)
We're just happy that you're here.
Jessica (52:26.819)
I want you to fill your lungs with air and feel your ribs expand like a big hug. Next, I want you to take that air and as you slowly exhale, bring it down to the ground. If you can feel your toes wiggle on the land, are you on the carpet? Are you walking on a road, on a street, on a path? Are you next to water?
I want you to return to yourself before we return to testimony.
Jessica (53:12.623)
you
E's testimony is a profound teaching. It tells us that we cannot fix a broken system with purely technical fixes. What I find to be a really profound moment in this testimony is we see in real time what IFOT offers us, what Patti offers E. We know the body keeps a score. The idea that a body holds on to something is actually central to IFOT.
When E shares her story, her testimony, the assault, she talks about the aftermath, the wake in response to something traumatic. E shares how the music, the area, the model of the car was very triggering for her. Her body is holding on to that. Our bodies hold memory. It remembers what happens. And our work today is not to ignore that feeling.
but to gently turn towards it and acknowledge the weight that it carries. This is where Patty introduces the concept of the land and it's so incredibly powerful. She says the land will always hold that for us, that medicine, this way to honor a story by establishing that reciprocal healing container that contrasts the often sharp environments of the hospital.
an environment that E knows all too well. What E's testimony highlights are the core systemic failures of our institutions. She carried the weight of her trauma, not just from the assault she experienced, but from the realization that when she needed help, she was fundamentally alone. And not just alone in the sense of these systems, but also our society, a society that prioritizes silence from survivors that
Jessica (55:10.223)
prioritizes sexual health that meets the needs of often the oppressor, that doesn't address things like consent, and how and why we have a system that is very broken for women, for girls, for Indigenous women, for survivors. IFOT provides us perspective. This perspective immediately counters what she's sharing as what some might label as shame.
Some folks might label her response to trauma as maladaptive, if I was to use a clinical language. But we know that not to be true. And Patty provides her with that gift. She shares how that this numbness, the laughter, her reaching out for support actually is acknowledging the gifts that she has, those protective mechanisms, and they should be celebrated, these acts of survivance. This validates
her lived experiences, it sees her as a whole person and acknowledges that we are all doing the best we can with what we have. And when we mislabel survivors' responses to trauma, we're not getting closer to healing and that we have to trust survivors in their experiences. To bring us back to the present, when E not only talks about how her assault shaped her experiences of
wanting to be that mama bear that protects women. She also talks about her profession. Later in the testimony, we hear how her own work in an emergency department revealed the cruel reality of institutional betrayal and the specific barriers to justice that survivors face. She saw a system that perhaps unintentionally prioritizes its own rigidity, like its processes and productivity over the person.
over survivors. Here survivors are left waiting because of staffing notes like no VIP nurses available or no nurses till Monday. This rigid bureaucratic logic prioritizes a schedule over survivor well-being. It's re-traumatizing and it stops them from receiving the care that they need. And I think from what he says, it doesn't even see the whole need.
Jessica (57:32.257)
I fuse folks that are survivors as needing maybe immediate care but not recognizing there are multiple pieces to this puzzle. E specifically says that care needs to be not just technical but psychological and also emotional. E shares some really important barriers that I think need to be acknowledged. She noted a dedicated support room for sexual assault victims was not used once throughout her whole experience in that emergency room.
which is alarming. What I think is more alarming is the fact that this resource existed, but the procedure to access it was so rigid that it almost became non-existence. And then we see delay and neglect. The most chilling examples is hearing about young survivors arriving on a Friday, only to have a note on a digital whiteboard that says, no VIP nurses till Monday. This note means that they're not going to be able to access care.
And I think it also makes us think about not only survivors, but the microcosm around survivors. Because of our society that's very individualistic, it robs us from an opportunity to see that there are also other victims that are part of the system that want to provide care. And similar to E, can't provide the care that they want to because of procedures, process, rules, regulation, staff shortages.
that is re-traumatizing not just for the survivor receiving care, but the people that participate in these systems as rights holders, providers, people that are in the healthcare system. We often forget that many of us are survivors. This shows us that this is the definition of a broken system. One that wasn't designed to be forensically or even technically precise. It doesn't provide people
access services in a way that actually meets their needs. And it robs survivors from the opportunity to have that holistic support. As E says, they're not getting that psychological or emotional support. But what I think that's really beautiful about E's testimony is that it reminds us that there is a potential path forward. There are people like E that are participating in these systems.
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that want it to change with every bone in their body. Yi's vision for an ideal future provides a path forward. She demands a practice that is unequivocally survivor centered, where the number one thing would come down to what the survivor wanted. And this is the heart of a survivor based approach. It shifts the power and agency from the institution back to the individual. She also
talks a little bit about the role of education. She shares how if our education was actually rooted in relational practices that would actually support those who are providing care to remind them that they too are a part of that survivor's story forever. This testimony shook me. It shaped me. It really reminded me about how we all have a role to play in this journey of supporting survivors.
Jessica (01:00:58.487)
I'm here to listen to your story, to what you want to share, and then I'll have questions, but I'll follow you. So although we certainly are interested in the impact of geography on getting access to care and to kids, I just want to start with your story and let you lead in that way. Okay. Does that sound okay? Definitely. Okay.
I'm in the Northern community. We had two hospitals, but one hospital was mostly for elderly people. the main hospital was for all patients. When I was sexually assaulted, I attended the hospital. However, there was not a SAC nurse at the hospital. We do have right beside our hospital, a SAC building.
where the nurses do come over to do the DNA testings. However, the day that I went to the hospital, there was nobody available. And there should always be somebody available, whether it be from SOC, a nurse practitioner. And my feelings were I didn't want a male doctor to conduct
conducted study for the testers, I wanted a female doctor. So you went and you discovered that, and what happened next? I was told to come back the next day by the hospital. Wow. And it's very pertinent that you had those tests done afterwards. Yeah. And I was very distraught.
that they were sending me home. did they give you any other instructions? I'm sorry to interrupt. They told me to go home. I could shower if I wanted to. I come back the next day and the nurse would prepare the testings. I found it to be kind of odd that they would have sent me home. I was in trauma. I suffered an attack.
Jessica (01:03:25.492)
something like that, you would want to see somebody the same day. what I hear is that they sent you away because there wasn't someone to administer the kid, but they weren't looking at your overall care, your overall condition. Yeah. The police officer that attended the house after I reported it, he was very compassionate, but
The next day there was another police officer. He was a detective. He actually attended the hospital. And I found him not to be very compassionate. I found him to be negligent in his duties. And he had actually said he didn't believe that I was sexually assaulted. Wow. my goodness.
To me, a police officer's belief is irrelevant. agree. This is, Patty, this is very helpful. We only have a handful of interviews so far that describe the total journey in seeking care. And so what you're describing is incredibly helpful to get the picture of when the kid is not available and
Yeah, the interaction even with law enforcement. So thank you for this. No problem. Yeah. So you returned, you had the experience with the police officer. And what was the experience like then as you returned? Return from the hospital? You came back the second day, did I understand?
Yes. The second day it was a detective that was the officer in charge. He was to pick up the DNA kit and bring it to the police station. And he had picked up the kit after words he had actually knocked on the door when I was being examined and he wanted to speak to the SAC nurse. So I was left on the table. There was two nurses that were in attendance.
Jessica (01:05:51.928)
And the one nurse went and talked to the detective and he waited there and said he would come back and pick up the kit. And one thing I'll mention is the kit that he had taken actually was misplaced at the police station. Was it ever found? Yes, I think it was like three years later. We were going through the court proceedings. Yeah. And I had
both filed a criminal suit and a civil suit against the perpetrator. And it was the lawyer that helped me along the way. And we finally found the DNA kit with my clothing. My clothing was also given to the police station.
But the clothing was never examined. But then there's like the sock nurses, I said like sometimes when you come the next day, they don't get all what they would be able to obtain from just after the incident. Yeah, 100%. I spoke with the one lady, she was a little bit younger than that older lady. And she was very compassionate.
They were also appalled at what they made me do to go home with them. When we listen to P's testimony, at least for myself, my stomach almost like opened up. It's like it wanted to swallow me whole because it was that feeling of grief and sadness and frustration and anger and all of the emotions.
We're standing with one another here, so what I might be feeling might be different from how you're feeling. But I know that bearing witness to a testimony like this can evoke feelings that require us to take care, to take intention. I just want you to take a breath with me. Breathe with me.
Jessica (01:08:10.242)
When we sit with P's testimony, we're asked to see how personal violence is inseparable from the larger patterns of colonial violence that continue to harm Indigenous women, girls, and Two-Spirit people, and to recognize that pathways to healing and justice are deeply tied to land. P describes being turned away from care after her assault, denied a woman doctor, told to return the next day, a response that not only compounded
her trauma, but reflected the deliberate underfunding and neglect of Indigenous health services that have their roots in colonial policies. This is not an isolated failure. It echoes the legacy of medical racism. From forced sterilization to the chronic undersourcing of Northern communities, systems that consistently treat Indigenous bodies as less deserving of care.
When the police later mishandled her case, disbelieving her, even misplacing evidence for years. That too was not only individual negligence, but part of a wider colonial pattern. Long documented in the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. Where Indigenous women are routinely disbelieved, their lives treated as expendable. When P turned to ceremony,
medicines, gardening, and water as sources of healing. Authorities dismiss these practices as paranoid delusions, continuing a century-long attempt to delegitimize Indigenous knowledge and sever people from the land that sustains them. What her testimony shows us is that colonial violence operates at many levels at once. Through healthcare and justice systems that are denying dignity,
their disbelief that silences survivors, to the erasure of indigenous ways of healing and through the ongoing dispossession of land and water. And yet, peace resilience, representing herself in court, refusing to be silenced by harassment, grounding her healing in cultural and land-based practices, teaching youth that if someone harms you, they're harming us all.
Jessica (01:10:31.964)
is a reminder that Indigenous survival and resistance have always persisted, are always rooted in land and relationship and community. And that healing begins when we listen with care, when we honor land as medicine, because Pea's Resilience is an invitation for us to ask, how can I be and how can I honor myself?
Even for me as a host and guide as I bear witness to her resilience, I also recognize the duality of this experience. I think for a lot of folks, when we hear testimonies as profound as Peas, and we listen with such reverence, we have to ask ourselves, how can I hear all of this? How can I feel all of this? And how can I ask myself questions to make sure that I'm doing everything I can to honor this testimony, to learn from this testimony?
and ask myself, am I getting closer to honoring myself? Am I getting closer to the land?
Jessica (01:11:38.978)
We always like to start with story. So just, I wondered if you wanted, or if something comes to mind, whatever comes to mind is usually absolutely the right thing. Just to share in terms of your experience of that, service and service providers and yeah, what you've experienced in your lived experience. Yeah, I know that's going to be, that's one that I probably have to put time restraint on, but
I grew up here in the North developed incredibly since that time, since the early nineties, just as far as what we used to have here for resources to what we have now that our health system and the funding for some of these social services are really it's for, I see what's happening here and it's an injustice to, to the individuals who are being affected.
So I was very much immersed in the mental health aspect of those services. I found there was little to no support, still is little to no support in my opinion. As I was sleeping on the streets of downtown Pitch George, until I was about 18, I didn't end up getting a place and being quite successful for a period of 20s. I began using the narcotics so quite heavily. I was...
ended up being addicted to cocaine and then meth and vitamins. so that would have been.
Yeah. So I would have had, I took eight years on June 29th. So it would have been roughly 2017 that I was kind of sought help there. So I think I had a few slips from time to time, but so, and very much that it's just, there's no support services. My experience with treatment and health facilities was for, I mean, you enter a 30 day program and it's an evolving board process. Right. And you push in and push out and if
Jessica (01:13:41.112)
If you're government funded and somebody comes in with cash money, Nalbucha, a very toxic system, they do not set you up for success. It takes years to develop some sense of stability after. And just in a chemical imbalance sense too. mean, it took me five years to cry. Like for me, like it's like a sneeze that will come. So you feel that inside and it's like, need to sneeze, but you can't sneeze.
you know, and then feeling emotions and then motioning them to things. and then just realizing that there's no, I mean, psychiatry, have nobody here. We have one major role playing psychiatrist, um, that kind of oversees everything. There are a few other, uh, psychiatrists, but he plays, he does everything from the prisons to the assessments to the, right. And so we still don't have enough. could have 10 more on the phone, but still not have enough.
And I think being a northern community, is a large prejudice, people with addiction issues. I think it's easy for people to shrug it off or judge it. and it's also easier for the people. This is the issue of, right. And so these people are getting failed and then it's people are judging them, but it's really, it's not those people's fault. It's the system that's failed them.
Just on the experience, think, you know, unfortunately, and yet out there to say fortunately, I have kind of experienced most sense of trauma. So anything from physical, emotional, sexual abuse, living on the streets, the mental health concerns, definitely I think have kind of given me a well-rounded experience of what it's like.
So I mean, from accessing the hospitals and knowing that the level of prejudice, especially geared towards marginalized individuals, people with mental health, dealings with the police and how they treat individuals who are marginalized. I think I've been able to experience that across the board. So I'm able to bring some level of compassion and understanding to that.
Jessica (01:16:01.194)
When you feel someone kind of relax in your interactions with them, what do you think is happening at that point? Is that about so they can relate to your experience? what else might be going on, do you think? I think that there's a, at some point there's a, people's guards come down. Yeah.
I notice a sense of, think people want to be helped. think there's this interesting concept that if you treat people like a human being, that's a weird, weird thing where we, where they actually do better. You treat people with compassion and kindness and respect. There's, there's some wonderful things in, out of Norway that I see. they've got one of the lowest and working with it with, criminalized individuals.
They've got one of the lowest repeat offender rates in the world. It's nil because they do this weird thing where they counsel people and they help them not to reoffend after they would have been charged with a crime. And somehow it works. mean, I don't know. It's quite frustrating because it is common sense. Unfortunately, westernized culture is not.
I think we still capitalize on people being incarcerated. And then I think at the same time, we've also kind of created this, this nightmare. It sounds like it's, would be early or maybe even too soon or not the right place to bring attention to these, you know, cultural possibilities to the standing hospital or policing or anything like that.
So do you see the center as a place that doesn't come with that, with those histories, just inherent histories of harm and racism? Yeah. I think I have a very, my personal and professional opinions are closely related, but definitely different when it comes to the
Jessica (01:18:25.546)
structures like our education system or lovely policing force there, security, national private security force. I think that there's a level of defunding that needs to be corrected. Correction to the way things are done. And I have to be very careful because I get very emotionally charged about this. it's, yeah, I'm not a fan. I'm quite passionate and protective of
those who are marginalized and especially from my own lived experiences. I've had been mistreated in hospital and I've had a cop muscle me around because you he could. And so I think there is a level and I think that you can have a good cop and you can have a good nurse and you can have a good social worker. But at end of the day, they're all crushed under the one big system being MCFD or CMP.
Northern health, interior health, right? I think that's where we fall short is there's, that's a new title. So I think they have been talked about changing it again. But yeah, there's, think that we fill roles, right? So I'm on call for the, any after hours calls for rape relief, right? Like if something happens, if somebody goes to the hospital, we will sit with them. Yeah.
and support them. mean, as huge. I wasn't at the more recent one, but a young woman sat there for 14 hours. Our staff went in three rotations to sit at the hospital for 14 hours from two in the morning, four in the morning to like, was ridiculous. And it was all, the doctor was at the building. They're doing their rounds, right? That's disgusting to me. Yeah, it is disgusting.
And you get lucky and you have a decent cop, but you could just get just as unlucky and have a really shitty cop or a really shitty doctor. And having this clinic to establish where you can have these tests done non-invasively by people who are caring professionals who are trained to do this. And again, it's just, yeah, it's a, I think it's a huge thing and I look forward to us getting it up and running. Yeah.
Jessica (01:20:48.36)
So as you imagine that, like, what is the standard of care as someone comes in for a kit? Like if you close your eyes and you, you think about the space transformed and that's unfolding, like who's at the door, what happens next, what happens after that? What does that look like? Yeah.
The ideal would be, I I want to see everyone be cared for, right? And I think that there's just, even when we do attend those things at the hospital, there's a level of trauma the victim wants to push off, right? And they want to just kind of move forward and ignore. And hopefully providing a safe and healing space where they, you know, obviously going to the hospital and having those types of exams done or not, they're going to be scary. They're going to be upsetting. They're not going to be comfortable.
at least maybe creating a more accepting environment where it can be done in private and not over 14 hours to get the test done. Hopefully we can create a sense of comfort that will invite the survivors to come back to seek help and to seek the counseling and healing that they deserve.
I think it all comes down to kindness and respect and human decency. you start providing these things, I think it opens the doors to a lot of wonderful, even if people at the hospital have the best intentions, the way it's set up, the system is on helping. It's not promoting change. It's not promoting people to want to talk about it and address it. And hopefully with creating these kinds of spaces, that is something that we can do.
End's testimony reminds us that survivors' decisions about whether to seek care, engage with services, or pursue justice are never made in isolation. They're shaped by a lifetime of complex trauma and by systems that too often, too often, reenact harm instead of providing safety. In his testimony, he describes growing up with violence in the home,
Jessica (01:23:07.968)
mental health diagnosis and with little to no meaningful support. Later as a teenager experiencing homelessness, sleeping on the streets from a young age, these early traumas created conditions where survival often depended on substances as shared and there were very little supports offered.
N's story actually illustrates how colonial systems fail youth long before a single crisis point. Underfunded child welfare services, intergenerational trauma from residential schools, and the lack of community-based, culturally responsible and responsive care, leave a lot of young folks vulnerable to cycles of homelessness and addiction. When N did seek help and went to treatment programs,
He found that he was a part of a revolving door, a 30-day program that discharged people quickly, sometimes even prioritizing private play clients over those who are government-funded. So these are not just program flaws, but these are symptoms of a broader system that treats care as a commodity and marginalized lives as less valuable. And colonial violence here takes form of inequitable access.
stripping away dignity and creating systems designed to punish and discard rather than heal. So his experiences actually reveal how re-traumatizing this has become. In his testimony, he about how he witnessed a woman who had to wait 14 hours for a sexual assault kit, left alone in a quiet room. I agree with his response to calling it bullshit because it is.
He talks a lot about a lot of things that are interconnected, addiction, sexual assault, and mental health, that are taboo, or how our society labels them as taboo. And they're not discussed in a way that actually addresses the shame, the anger, the silence, and the systems that benefit from this. Survivors who are shunned or mistreated are often asked to carry these wounds forward. He even specifically says,
Jessica (01:25:32.03)
If you're mistreated at the hospital and you're ashamed because you need to get a kit done, why would you go back? This rhetorical question exposes a really like devastating truth. Each negative interaction has the power to close the door for future seeking help. And it points out to the fact that many people are left out of help to begin with. Youth, to us LGBTQIA folks,
male survivors and Indigenous peoples. Especially, as we know and as we've recalled, Indigenous survivors in particular, there is an absence of culturally safe and trauma-informed care that is not accidental. It's this direct outcome of colonialism. This idea that if care is not seen through this very medical clinical lens, then the care is not real. There's a lot of dismissal of generational trauma.
and a lack of land-based healing and cultural sensitivity. Mainstream services prioritize a lot of colonial structures that don't actually support survivor needs. He even talks about how there are other ways in which we can connect, connect to land. Things like hiking, fishing, are ways in which he connects. And I think this is an invitation to ask yourself again, how do I connect?
How do I honor myself when I'm observing systems that are failing me and failing people like me? His insights point us towards a simple yet profound truth that survivors heal in relationships through dignity, safety, compassion, and connection to land and culture. Anne's words actually I think offer us a lot to consider and ask ourselves, how can we do things differently?
Jessica (01:27:30.7)
So if we could change, let's maybe just zero back down to that process of when you got to this city and when you left out again. Like if you could redraw that and say, you know, I think for someone in my circumstance in the future, the ideal situation would be coming in through a separate country. Yes. Yeah. Being situated outside of the public eye.
What would be next and what would be next in of a better experience? I would say that having a larger evidence collection room, an appropriate place to remove your clothes and put them in the evidence bags without being crowded. know, like I was
I was basically shoved off into this bathroom, like I use quotes, bathroom, because it wasn't even really a bathroom. I had to go to the, like I had to pee. And this was before the collection was even started. So it was like, I had no privacy. I felt like I had no privacy. I did have privacy, but I was like crammed. I felt like I was rushing to please people.
It was such a structured system and it was like, let's get her in and out kind of thing. That time is for me to heal. Like, I'm going to carry this with me for the rest of my life. That time is for me to heal. So for me being shoved off into this bathroom with no shower, like, you know, it was like,
I was struggling to even remove my clothes and put them in these bags and, you know, and then get changed into my hospital gown and then, you know, go through that evidence collection kit. I feel like if it was a larger room, if you had a actual change room with privacy to change,
Jessica (01:29:59.273)
you know, a calming environment. Not so, like, I mean, I know it has to be sterile, but not so sterile vibes, you know? Like, put pictures on the wall, you know? You know, if you have to play music, know, calming music, you know, have like standard size clothing, like...
where women are not all the same, we're not all the same size. you know, having a new pair of underwear that fits me, like, at least somewhat. Like, I was wearing extra, extra large underwear, and I'm like, I'm 115 pounds. I'm like, they're falling off of me, and, you know, I'm just trying to survive here. Like, that kind of stuff, you know, maybe play music or...
Um, you know, I don't know how to explain the environment, but it was just not good. Yeah. Not good at all. yeah, there's a very human part of what's going. Yeah. Yeah. It needs a bit of a hug. Yeah. Through the space. Exactly. And we know a lot about the design of space and like what makes something lovely and comfortable. Yeah. And then have a shower. Yeah.
have a shower with towels, with soap, with shampoo, conditioner. You know, like you want to get that person off of you. And standing in there, like all I had for soap was hand soap or hand sanitizer. When we hear Dee's testimony, what I immediately noticed was the specifics in which when you experience dehumanizing care,
When you're navigating systems that are not rooted in or prioritize care, wellness, safety, healing, there are going to be instances that highlight, okay, we can do better here. We will see moments where adjustments can and should be made that will make folks feel safe, secure, and cared for. What these testimony provides us is specific and actionable ways in which you can create systems
Jessica (01:32:21.835)
that are actually rooted in survivor needs. When we have these conversations and we witness these testimonies that are allowing us windows into folks' experiences, we immediately see how survivor-led spaces and survivor-informed spaces can manifest. And I think for a lot of people, this work, fixing these systems, can feel really abstract. I know it can feel hard and heavy.
even difficult to define, especially when we look at the roots of the problem, when we look at things like colonialism, gender-based violence, capitalism, and all of these big isms that inform a survivor's experience. Some elements, however, can be fixed. Something as simple as what Dee provides us with, a space that's trauma-informed. This wisdom that she shares with us really allows us to peek into
what a truly radical space might look like. A survivor-shaped space might look like. It makes us look to the future and think, what could happen here? What could this space feel like? How could this space be connected to the land? Even something as simple as having clothes that fit, having a space that doesn't feel cramped, this again brings me back to conversations about the land.
The land is vast. The land is open. The land holds space. When you're in a space that feels tight and cramped, it doesn't feel like you have space to breathe, to process, to pause. When we are looking to the future and trying to create spaces that are survivor-informed, it doesn't always have to be that difficult. Often, things like bureaucracy, how things have, you know, always been, have air quotes right now,
We these huge barriers to not only justice, but actual care. Even at the health level, at the psychological level, these clinical, these sterile places don't feel safe for a lot of victims. These testimonies tell us that things can be changed, despite the fact that a lot of these systems are very committed to not changing.
Jessica (01:34:53.579)
When I think of this collection of testimonies, I feel moved, I feel shaped. In some ways I feel whole, but then in others I feel lost, like I've lost parts of myself. Not in a way that makes me feel sad, but in a way that grounds me to you, to other people. What we know in this work, that when we see ourselves separate from survivors,
When we look at rather than beside or into, it can be very hard to see ourselves reflected in survivors. It can be even harder to see survivors whole because when you are apart from something, you're looking at it from one lens. You're not seeing them whole. So when I think of E's testimony, I am reminded of myself as a young woman.
E reminds me of that young woman banging on the door of the universe demanding to hold and create space to push back against these systems who have tried to silence me. Because like E and like many of you, I've experienced trauma and it shaped me and it pushed me forward into a career where I want to make the world a safer place. And we are so lucky to have people like you, E.
And we're so lucky to have people like you and that challenge systems and say the quiet part out loud. Part of a survivor informed space is bearing witness to collections of testimonies like this. They not only shape us in ways that are uncomfortable, but ways that feel familiar. And you might see parts of yourself reflected in some of these testimonies you bared witness to today. I want you to sit in that discomfort.
but also let it make you feel at home. Because a part of the system wants us to feel separate from one another, especially when things feel ugly and hard and scary. We live in a society that says, don't touch that. It's like the stove that's too hot. Don't touch it. Because if I don't see me in you, you will not see you in me.
Jessica (01:37:17.321)
And because of that, it's a lot harder for us to stand together and also to take part of the survivance that we see in other people and embody it within ourselves. The gifts that the survivors have shared with us today, survivors like P, who have a lifetime of wisdom that we are just lucky to bear witness to, like N, who wants to challenge systems and asks us to do it with him.
Survivors like Dee that hold us in this most tender place in our heart. And survivors like E that inspire us, that at least inspired me to talk to that little girl inside of me. I want to thank these survivors for allowing us into your world. And if you're listening, hold some space for that appreciation. I want it to feel like a warm hug.
Jessica (01:38:19.749)
As we finish our time in the East here, I want us to pause, to breathe, to fill our bellies filled with air again, to straighten our backs. If you're like me, might be twisting in your seat. If it feels safe, close your eyes. Take a breath.
Jessica (01:38:43.135)
We've witnessed and listened to testimonies that tell us a lot of different truths at once. But what I find the most important about this conversation today is a lot of these survivors, while their stories, while they might not repeat, they rhyme, meaning that they have similar themes, stories of injustice. We also witnessed the resilience
are the ways in which these survivors, they recognize these injustices and then found ways to speak to them. They connected with the land, they connected with themselves, they set boundaries, they navigated justice, they honored themselves and they took care of themselves. Connecting with the land, the ceremony, to getting involved in this work as an advocate.
Jessica (01:39:37.629)
As we finish our time here in the East and move towards the South, I wanna leave you with some questions. I want you to ask yourself, what has changed in me from listening to these testimonies? How have these survivors stories shaped how I see myself and see this world? And how can I love myself deeper in these moments? Connect with others in these moments.
and how can I get as close to community and the land as possible?
Thank you. Now go do something that's going to make your mind, body, and spirit feel whole. We'll chat soon. Take care. You are loved.
